Kevin Ellis on Osteoporosis and Constructing Stronger Bones

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Katie: Whats up, and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from and That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And this episode is all about bone well being. I’m right here with Kevin Ellis who’s often called the Bone Coach. And he’s an authorized integrative diet coach, a podcaster, YouTuber, bone well being advocate, and the founding father of


And his story started with an osteoporosis recognized in his early 30s. And this started a journey for him of each his personal therapeutic and serving to plenty of different folks as effectively. And at the moment, he’s not solely reworked his personal well being, however he’s devoted his life to serving to others with the identical drawback. And thru his distinctive three-step course of and training applications, his staff of specialists has helped folks in 1,500 cities world wide. And we discuss so much in depth concerning the completely different sides of this. Issues just like the distinction between osteopenia and osteoporosis, the baseline testing and scans which can be good to get earlier than they’re really really helpful, and easy methods to know when you’re in danger. The highest issues we are able to do for our youngsters to assist them really attain their peak bone mass round age 30.


Extra causes to keep away from extra sugar consumption, the way in which issues like fluoride and environmental chemical compounds can have an effect on bone well being, the precise vitamins that you simply want to your bones. They go far past simply calcium and vitamin D. The universally helpful and dangerous meals for the bones, and far, way more. Even when that is one thing that you simply don’t suppose you could have a possible situation with, there’s plenty of actually nice preventative recommendation in right here. And to his level, you would possibly really be stunned to know that you’ve among the danger components, and that early scans can assist you avoiding any precise issues. So I discovered so much. And with none additional delay, let’s soar in. Kevin, welcome. Thanks for being right here.


Kevin: Hey, thanks, Katie, for having me. Tremendous nice to be right here.


Katie: I’m excited to talk with you and we’re gonna discuss all issues bone well being, which you’re an skilled in, however earlier than we do, I’ve a word in my present notes that you’ve a objective to mentor 1,000,000 children who don’t have good function fashions. And I’d simply love to listen to among the purpose for the motivation behind that.



Kevin: Yeah. For me, you already know, after I was a younger child…my father handed away after I was tremendous younger, after I was about two months outdated and, you already know, had a dramatic affect on my life. I grew up, I had an abusive stepfather you already know, some irritating challenges in my childhood and I by no means actually had a father determine that I may look to that I felt like was instructing me the values, the teachings, the morals, all of the issues like that, that I actually wished to have and really feel after I was a child. And, you already know, as I acquired older, I spotted there are plenty of children, you already know, going by means of that now. And that’s form of one thing that I need to be a mentor, any individual who can train them the values, how will you be a very good sort contributing member to society from a extremely younger age? And finally, I’d like to get that to the purpose the place, you already know, these children may have an internship or one thing like that in a purpose-driven group like ours.


Katie: That’s lovely. I believe we positively want extra of that. And, sadly, that is, such as you stated, one thing that impacts plenty of children and I believe sources like which can be gonna be so useful sooner or later for…and I believe that creates ripples as effectively. Like, once you assist a toddler at a younger age, it creates ripples for future generations. And that’s a lot the identical purpose I’ve all the time beloved working with mothers as a result of I really feel like if I can assist mothers, then that creates ripples for his or her children and for generations past that as effectively.


Kevin: Completely.


Katie: Effectively, I do know that you simply’re additionally an skilled in all issues bone well being, and it looks like this got here from a spot of form of private expertise for you as effectively. I’ve typically heard from folks on this podcast and myself as effectively, plenty of us get into the well being and wellness world making an attempt to resolve our personal issues. So I’d love to begin broad and listen to the story of how you bought began on this journey within the first place.


Kevin: Yeah. And a part of that, you already know, begins with my father’s passing. You realize, he handed away when he was 35, at a extremely younger age, and my whole life, I had this concern that I used to be gonna observe in his footsteps to an early grave and never have the chance to look at my children develop up and expertise the thrill of being a father. And after I was recognized with osteoporosis at 31 at a time after I nonetheless had all these different well being points to resolve, I believed my destiny was destined to be the identical. You realize, I had a younger daughter, son in the way in which, I used to be devastated. And I keep in mind the day the physician sat down with me and confirmed that I had osteoporosis, and it wasn’t similar to a letter within the mail, like really sat down with me and her actual phrases had been, “That is going to be a difficulty for you.” Bone medication and fracture had been my future. And I walked out of that workplace afraid.


And for the individuals who know me effectively, they know I’m usually not essentially the most emotional particular person, and there are only a few issues which can be gonna strike concern in my coronary heart, however that did it. And after I acquired residence that evening, I used to be laying on the sofa throughout my spouse. My daughter was upstairs sleeping and I regarded up, I noticed my favourite image of her on the wall. She was a bit of over 1-year-old carrying this cute polka dot costume standing in entrance of a white picket fence, blonde hair, blue eyes, harmless and candy as could be. And I simply broke down crying. And I cried exhausting. It was the type to cry that empties the sum of life’s burdens. And after I used to be performed, I regarded over at my spouse and stated, “I simply wanna dance with my daughter on her marriage ceremony day.” She wanted her daddy and I questioned whether or not I’d even be alive to be there for. And for these first couple of days and weeks, I used to be offended, upset, overwhelmed. I used to be scared. I had no concept the place to begin. I simply wished to know all the pieces was gonna be okay and the way I used to be gonna even work out easy methods to enhance my well being and my bones.


And after an excessive amount of studying, analysis, working with medical doctors, consulting with folks, my mindset began to shift. And as soon as I acquired to the purpose the place I began making use of the issues I had been studying, was really making enhancements in my well being and my bones, that’s after I realized simply how difficult it may be for the common particular person, largely the common girl who’s recognized with osteopenia and osteoporosis, usually not, you already know, the younger man, to determine what they should do to deal with bone loss, construct bone energy, and forestall fracture. As a result of the prescription for 90% of ladies who’re recognized is calcium, vitamin D, strolling, and a bone drug, and that’s woefully insufficient. And it’s actually that purpose why I began BoneCoach and


Katie: And that most likely needed to be fairly the shock so that you can be 31, and such as you stated, a man, which isn’t the traditional danger demographic and doubtless in excellent well being. I learn that you simply had been a Marine earlier than that, it wasn’t from lack of motion. It wasn’t from…you already know, such as you had been doing plenty of the issues that ought to have doubtlessly not put you in danger. In order that needed to be fairly a shock to seek out out. And I’m curious at that age, like how do you know that you simply had it and the way would another person who possibly has the early danger components know that they could have it as effectively?


Kevin: Yeah. So for me, despite the fact that, you already know, being a Marine, realizing easy methods to work out, being bodily lively, all these sorts of issues, I had that. And I had a basis of weightlifting and issues like that after I was youthful, however on the similar time, I had celiac illness, malabsorption of vitamins for a lot of, a few years. A slew of digestive points, low vitality, poor sleep. You realize, I clearly most likely wasn’t absorbing my vitamins. There have been simply plenty of various things. Whereas I used to be within the Marines, I smoked for 5 years. You realize, there was some ingesting and issues like that that took half throughout that point too. All these items can contribute and work in opposition to us. Usually, you’re not gonna be getting a DEXA scan, a bone density scan, and we’ll speak about these in a minute once you’re youthful. However for me, as a result of I had celiac illness, that’s one of many issues that we ended up pushing for. And we initially thought I used to be simply gonna be checking the field, however turned out…discovered we had osteoporosis. In order that was form of an entire shock for me at the moment.


Katie: Gotcha. In order that was the impetus for you, like entering into and getting examined at that time was…


Kevin: Yep. Yep. Completely.


Katie: And so I’m assuming these are all additionally then danger components. If somebody already has celiac illness or actually have some form of intestine dysbiosis, that may be a possible danger issue for bone points.


Kevin: They completely can. They completely could be danger components for that. And when it comes to like…I didn’t even know after I was recognized what osteoporosis was. So osteoporosis actually means porous bone. It’s characterised by both not sufficient bone formation, extreme bone loss, or a mix of all. In osteoporosis, each your bone density and your bone high quality are diminished, and that’s gonna enhance your danger of fracture. And I had simply talked about a bone density scan. In order that’s form of the gold commonplace of discovering out how you could have osteoporosis is the dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry. It’s a painless take a look at, form of like an X-ray, however very low ranges of radiation. You lay down on a machine, the machine does a scan. It tells you your bone mineral density, the precise mineral content material of your bone. After which it generates a rating. And the rating is named a T-score. And a T-score is telling you ways a lot your bone mass differs from the bone mass of a median wholesome 30-year-old grownup.


So a rating of zero means your bone density is the same as the norm for a wholesome younger grownup. Rating plus one, minus one, thought of regular and wholesome, however a T-score of between adverse one and adverse 2.5, that signifies you could have low bone mass, oftentimes known as osteopenia, which is sort of a precursor to osteoporosis. After which a T-score of adverse 2.5 or decrease signifies you could have osteoporosis. The higher that adverse quantity is, so adverse 2.5, adverse 2.6, adverse 2.7, the extra extreme the osteoporosis. Most ladies are getting these scans performed by the point they’re of their 50s and 60s as a test within the field. Their medical doctors are gonna get them organized, however that’s too late in my view. For those who haven’t had one but, and also you’re in your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, go get one. It’s a good suggestion to get a baseline. And we don’t wanna keep away from doing one thing too simply because the reply will not be one thing we don’t wanna hear, proper? You possibly can’t tackle one thing additionally till you’re conscious of it. In order that’s a extremely necessary word there that I prefer to make is let’s be on the facet of prevention, get a baseline. And that means, we don’t essentially simply react afterward in life.


Katie: Yeah. That’s an ideal level. I keep in mind discovering out after I first discovered I had Hashimotos and it was in some methods a aid as a result of at the very least then I knew and I may begin addressing it. And also you’re proper, I don’t suppose lots of people suppose to get that. I haven’t ever gotten a DEXA scan and I’m in my 30s. But it surely is sensible, and I do know there’s plenty of different data that may come from that as effectively. So it looks like an ideal baseline take a look at. I’m guessing it’s multifactorial, however what do we predict causes osteopenia or osteoporosis?


Kevin: Nice query. And I attempt to get folks to consider imagining their physique as like a…think about you could have a bucket of water, okay? The bucket represents your physique. The water inside the bucket represents your bone mineral density, the measure of how a lot bone you could have. And picture that bucket has a small gap in it with a really tiny leak. And over time, over years and years, that water stage will get decrease and decrease and decrease till at some point you go get that bone density scan, you understand your water is low. You might have osteopenia and osteoporosis. And also you’re shocked. I believed my bucket was stuffed with water. And normally, the explanations are as a result of both you could have a bunch of well being points like I did, and that’s what led you to go get a DEXA scan otherwise you’re on the alternative finish of the spectrum.


You’re employed out, you suppose you’re maintaining a healthy diet, you’re doing all the pieces proper, you get a DEXA scan as a test within the field, you discover out you could have osteoporosis. In both of these situations, you could have this response of how do I repair this proper now? And generally folks make fast drastic choices, together with taking a bone drug typically influenced by our medical doctors to instantly plug the outlet and fill our buckets again up with water. And we do that earlier than figuring out the place the outlet is, what triggered it, or if there was even a gap within the first place as a result of your bucket might not have ever been stuffed with water to start with. So let’s discuss concerning the first one. Is there a gap in your bucket? Are you actively dropping bone? A single bone density scan won’t let you know that. And it’s essential know the reply to that earlier than you make different choices as a result of one thing may very well be inflicting that loss, may very well be a number of issues.


So the take a look at we wanna use right here is named a serum CTX take a look at or a CT low PET kind take a look at. It is a bone turnover marker take a look at, and it’s wanting on the stage of bone breakdown that’s happening within the physique, okay? It’s measuring these collagen bone protein fragments. If that stage is elevated or actually excessive, that may be an indicator of lively bone loss. In order that’s one of many methods to inform in between DEXA scans when you’re nonetheless actively dropping bone. Then the query turns into, what triggered the outlet? And that is main extra into your query of what contributes or may have contributed to the bone loss and osteoporosis. And lots of people don’t know this, however there are a number of kinds of osteoporosis. There’s main osteoporosis, which is usually associated to a lower in estrogen in post-menopausal ladies.


Estrogen has a protecting impact on bone. When estrogen ranges lower as they do throughout menopause, it’s gonna trigger a rise within the exercise stage of cells that break down bone. However then there’s a complete different explanation for osteoporosis. That’s secondary osteoporosis. It is a class I fell into. And that is the place osteoporosis happens on account of, you already know, behaviors, circumstances, illnesses, problems, drugs, number of these various things. Most people who find themselves unexpectedly recognized of their 30s, or 40s, or 50s and 60s, they’ve or had a secondary trigger, okay? And that’s what now we have to go and discover and work out. After which the final half is, and that is necessary for teenagers, too. Did you simply not begin with a full bucket? Did you simply not obtain peak bone mass? As a result of what’s necessary to remember, in case you are recognized with osteoporosis, it doesn’t mechanically imply that you simply’re actively dropping bone. You could simply not have constructed up sufficient bone in your youthful years.


As much as 90% of your bone mass is acquired by age 18, and it peaks by the point you flip 30. So by the point you flip 30, your bucket is about as full because it’s going to be. So if once you’re youthful you had an consuming dysfunction, poor diet, low calcium and vitamin D consumption, when you smoked or drank excessively, when you led a sedentary way of life, or when you took sure drugs, these all may have prevented you from reaching peak bone mass and beginning with a full bucket.


Katie: So many instructions to go from there. I believe the primary being in order mother and father, what can we pay attention to to verify hopefully our youngsters do attain that full bone mass from an early age? Like, what are the components we wanna be actually cautious about?


Kevin: Yeah. Particularly with younger children, too, get them lively, get them outside taking part in, get them taking part in sports activities. Any of these actions after they’re youthful which can be gonna shock their bones. We need to, you already know, soccer, bone density within the legs of soccer gamers is normally nice as a result of it’s multidirectional. They’re altering course actually fast. There are these brief, intense bouts after which they’re off. In order that’s nice. Resistance coaching is nice. Getting them lively and strolling and shifting, all unbelievable. One factor I’d say for teenagers, too, is sugar. We gotta take note of sugar, okay? We don’t wanna be consuming plenty of completely different sugar. Extreme sugar consumption may exacerbate vitamin D deficiency. Analysis have really discovered {that a} excessive consumption of fructose is gonna enhance the expression of an enzyme answerable for degrading vitamin D. And that’s additionally going to lower the expression of an enzyme that helps synthesize vitamin D too.


So it’s gonna scale back our inner absorption of calcium. It’s gonna enhance our urinary excretion of calcium and magnesium. These are necessary minerals for our bones. So it’s not simply, you already know, I do know we hear on a regular basis to not eat sugar and to not be giving our youngsters a bunch of cookies and desserts and candies and all these issues, however there’s good purpose for it too for the well being of our skeleton. So these are some necessary issues. Chemical substances, listening to chemical compounds after we’re youthful, too. I’d say, and I’m positive that is about the commonest recommendation on the market and one of many best low-hanging fruit that we are able to do is making an attempt to shift to consuming natural produce and issues like that as attainable.


That means, we’re not getting issues like glyphosphate and, you already know, among the different damaging chemical compounds and issues like that on the market. We don’t wanna be consuming these issues for our youngsters. After which even your private care merchandise. To concentrate to the issues that you simply’re utilizing there. You realize, I’ll even simply say, you already know, after I first began saying that you simply had fluoride-free toothpaste and issues like that got here out, we jumped on that instantly like in our home. We had been utilizing another manufacturers and issues like that, however fluoride can really not be the perfect factor long-term to your intestine well being, to your bone well being, particularly in case your children are swallowing that stuff long-term as an alternative of spitting it out within the sink, most likely not gonna be the perfect factor there both. So these are some things from a child’s perspective too that I’d think about incorporating.


Katie: After which for adults as effectively, you stated age 30 is form of once you’re optimally gonna hit your peak bone mass. And ideally that’s when it’s gonna be actually good. For individuals who possibly get a DEXA scan or begin noticing a few of these signs and discover out their bone mass isn’t superb and possibly they’re of their 30s or 40s, I’d assume from listening to your story that that doesn’t imply all is misplaced and a few of that injury can’t be undone. However what does that course of seem like, if somebody will get comparable information or simply finds out they might be or have a few of these danger components or form of on that path?


Kevin: Yeah, completely. So primary, no, it doesn’t imply you’re completely fragile, proper, when you get a prognosis of osteoporosis. And this doesn’t imply, you already know, it doesn’t matter what age you’re. You possibly can construct bone energy within the age, it simply turns into more difficult. The older you get and the extra bone you lose, there are fewer cells concerned within the course of, that course of turns into much less environment friendly. So we wish folks to wanna be on the facet of prevention and never response. So let’s say you discover this out, your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s even, you’re nonetheless gonna observe the identical course of. Step one must be it’s important to establish and tackle all these root trigger problems with bone loss and bone injury, proper? If there are issues working in opposition to you actively, it’s important to tackle these issues first.


You gotta know what assessments it’s essential order and get performed. It’s a must to know easy methods to perceive your outcomes. You gotta be your individual greatest advocate. And that is with any well being situation, not simply osteoporosis. You possibly can’t simply put all of your religion into one particular person and count on them to do all the pieces for you, after which ensure that that’s gonna get you your greatest well being. You continue to must be form of guiding and directing that course of.


The second a part of that is nourish. It’s essential to restore the uncooked supplies and vitamins that you simply want for stronger, more healthy bones by means of weight loss plan, by means of digestion, by means of absorption. It’s essential to ensure you have the best inputs to provide stronger outputs as a result of you may’t rebuild one thing that’s not there, proper? And that’s gonna occur on three layers. Are you taking in the best vitamins in the correct quantity? Are you really absorbing these vitamins? If in case you have digestive points, these digestive points can really be a supply of irritation that contributes to bone breakdown within the physique. After which are these vitamins really making it to the cell stage?


And plenty of instances, you already know, persons are simply instructed, take your calcium, take your vitamin D, however there are different nutrient which can be necessary past simply that, magnesium. Magnesium is unbelievably necessary, not only for our bones, however for our total well being. One of many main features of magnesium is that we want it to make proteins in our physique. So once you eat proteins in your weight loss plan, be it from animals, eggs, fish, dairy, beans, peas, brown rice, no matter, by means of the method of digestion, you break these proteins down. And as soon as we take in these amino acids, we are able to then rebuild them in our our bodies into numerous proteins, however you want magnesium to do that. And nearly all the pieces within the physique is a protein or is made by proteins. You realize, bones are 50% protein by quantity.


One other necessary nutrient that’s typically ignored is vitamin Ok, okay? There are two kinds of vitamin Ok. Or, effectively, at the very least for the sake of this dialog, let’s simply say Ok-1 and Ok-2. Ok-1 could be transformed to Ok-2, however not effectively. Ok-2 is what’s most necessary for bone well being. There are some main varieties, there’s MK-4, there’s MK-7. However vitamin Ok-2 is gonna assist in bone mineralization. And that’s tremendous necessary too. So it’s extra than simply calcium and vitamin D. After which the final a part of that is…I’d say the final a part of this course of could be construct. It’s essential to construct energy, the physique energy, the thoughts energy, the bone, it’s essential scale back your stress, enhance your sleep, get an train plan in place that’s gonna show you how to really construct bone energy, and do these issues in a means that’s gonna forestall, you already know, fracture and harm and issues like that. In order that’s the excessive stage, and that’s just about the identical throughout the board for folks irrespective of how outdated you’re.


Katie: Yeah. And it looks like nice recommendation throughout the board, such as you stated, even for teenagers beginning at a younger age to verify they’ve these vitamins optimized they usually’re getting a various weight loss plan. It looks like you’ve talked about the absorption piece a few instances. And I believe that’s a factor that isn’t talked about sufficient in trendy society shouldn’t be solely is our weight loss plan nutrient-depleted in comparison with what it was a few generations in the past, however we’re possible not absorbing issues practically as effectively due to all the different issues which can be inputs in our our bodies and the chemical compounds we’re uncovered to. It additionally looks like there’s a very direct connection right here between bone loss and intestine points. So are you able to discuss extra about that and form of what to pay attention to associated to intestine well being and if that may be a part of the issue?


Kevin: Completely, sure. Main connection between intestine well being and bone well being. So I do know I used to be speaking a couple of bucket earlier, however let’s neglect concerning the bucket for a second. Let’s simply say…you already know, we’re gonna use a very completely different metaphor. Consider our our bodies and our bones as being like crops. With the intention to develop, they want vitamins and the best circumstances, proper? So most individuals focus a lot on the vitamins, the salads, the smoothies, the dietary supplements that they fail to think about the soil. Our intestine is just like the soil. We take in nearly all the pieces right here. So after we soak up meals or dietary supplements, we begin to break them down into smaller items in our mouth. That meals makes its means into our abdomen, the place it’s turned within the acidic combine to interrupt it down even additional. Then it makes its approach to our small gut, our soil. And that is the place our vitamins are damaged right down to their smallest type to be absorbed by us, the crops.


However as a way to take in something, we want roots in our soil, proper? Our roots are known as villi. These tiny little hair-like projections cowl our small gut and are answerable for absorbing vitamins. They take in the vitamins from the meals you eat after which shuttle these vitamins into your bloodstream to allow them to journey to the place they’re wanted within the physique, whether or not that’s for therapeutic a lower in your hand, rising your hair or fingernails, or rebuilding stronger bones. The job of our roots, our villi, is so necessary that the full floor space they use to soak up vitamins is the dimensions of a soccer subject. How superb is that, proper? However when now we have poor digestion and our intestine well being isn’t optimum, we are able to’t correctly break down our meals. And after we can’t correctly break down our meals, vitamins received’t be out there. And if vitamins aren’t out there, the villi received’t have the ability to take in them. And the physique received’t have the uncooked supplies and sources wanted for stronger, more healthy bones.


So the place do now we have to begin? What we have to begin with, are vitamins making it to your soil. If in case you have bloating, belching, burping, extreme gasoline, even diarrhea after meals, otherwise you really feel like meals simply sits in your abdomen and stagnates for a very long time, there’s a very good likelihood you could have low abdomen acid. Age, stress, nutrient deficiencies, intestine infections are all contributors. And surprisingly, you already know, the most effective indicators of low abdomen acid is reflux, which is surprising, proper? And when folks have reflux, what do they take for? The identical factor I took for quite a lot of years, tums and proton pump inhibitors like Prilosec, Prevacid, Nexium, Omeprazole. Like most individuals who take PPIs, I mistakenly thought I had an excessive amount of abdomen acid and I ended up suppressing what little abdomen acid I did have.


And the explanation that’s an issue is as a result of we want abdomen acid to correctly break down and extract vitamins from our meals like amino acids, the constructing blocks of protein. I discussed earlier, our bones are 50% protein by quantity. They want amino acids. Calcium is the first mineral constituent of our bones. Low abdomen acid reduces its absorption. Magnesium, iron, B12, in case you have low abdomen acid, your soil might be starved of those vitamins and others. The subsequent query about, you already know, intestine well being, does your soil have the best stability of bugs? Different issues are gonna rise in case your soil has the unsuitable stability of bugs, dysbiosis, the presence of unhealthy bugs, intestine infections, and even good bugs within the unsuitable place, SIBO like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. These bugs make up our microbiome.


When that is out of stability, it’s gonna negatively have an effect on your physique’s means to soak up vitamins and it’s gonna contribute to leaky intestine systemic irritation, each of that are unhealthy to your physique and your bones. So, once more, how have you learnt in case your bugs usually are not balanced? You would possibly expertise the bloating, the belching, the extreme gasoline, the heartburn, the constipation, diarrhea, even fatigue. These can all be indicators. After which the final a part of the digestive well being image form of ties into one of many the explanation why I developed osteoporosis, you already know, at a youthful age is there are a number of circumstances and illnesses that have an effect on your physique’s means to soak up vitamins. So are your roots even working correctly? Celiac illness is one in every of them and it’s the first purpose for my osteoporosis. How does that contribute to nutrient malabsorption bone loss? Whenever you ingest gluten, these villi, our roots turn out to be blunted to the purpose the place they will’t do their job.


And so for me, my roots successfully turned broken. My physique was starved with key bone-healthy vitamins like calcium, phosphorus, and vitamin D. These are normally absorbed a bit of larger up within the small gut the place that injury is extra more likely to happen. And this went on for years, had no concept calcium was being raked for my bones to serve different functions. And, you already know, there’s a very good likelihood that that may be a contributing think about osteoporosis. So we want to verify in case you are nonetheless consuming gluten, you already know, the tTg-IgA is a superb take a look at to assist with that. After which additionally the full serum IgA can be a useful take a look at there too.


Katie: That’s tremendous useful. I used to be taking notes. And I’m curious how your bone well being is now after like occurring this journey and what your progress has regarded like.


Kevin: Yeah, completely. Been in a position to make progress alongside the way in which and enhancements alongside the way in which. And, you already know, we took that, we took all the pieces that I had discovered, but it surely wasn’t simply me, it was principally taking the analysis and all of the issues and we made it actionable for different folks now, too. That’s most likely crucial factor is now we even have been in a position to assist folks in over 1,500 cities world wide at this level placing a plan in place, strolling them by means of a three-step course of, and placing them in entrance of extremely credentialed staff members and specialists that alongside my… In my very own journey, I spotted it’s actually exhausting once you put all of your eggs into one particular person. Typically it’s essential coordinate with plenty of completely different folks. And that’s one of many issues we’ve in a position to do is put folks in entrance of all of the folks that may assist them get solutions alongside the way in which. So is de facto one of many more difficult components of the journey.


Katie: And I’m glad you introduced up the magnesium connection too, as a result of that is one thing I’ve been speaking about for years and realizing it’s so depleted within the trendy weight loss plan and it’s wanted much more than we’re getting typically and sometimes there’s a spot for supplementation. I’m curious when you can simply kinda stroll us by means of, I do know you even have this all as a full strategy on-line for individuals who really want to enter the main points, however simply form of an outline of what an optimum weight loss plan complement train plan would possibly seem like, possibly even at completely different ages for bone well being?


Kevin: Yeah, completely. So you already know, let’s even simply begin with weight loss plan and diet as a starting place. Clearly, you already know, we wanna be certain we’re getting the best meals, the best vitamins. If we don’t have the issues there to assist us construct bone, we’re not really gonna have the ability to rebuild our bones and we’re not gonna have the ability to forestall bone loss. One thing I wanna level out although with weight loss plan and diet is each time you eat, you could have the chance to provide your physique all the pieces it must heal and rebuild itself. But it surely’s about much more than simply drink a bunch of milk and alkalize your physique with inexperienced greens. And other people ask me on a regular basis, what’s the proper weight loss plan, they usually hate my response. It relies upon, proper? We’re all biochemically and genetically distinctive people. We reply to completely different meals and dietary approaches in a different way, which is why no dietary strategy could be thought of a inflexible framework with zero flexibility.


It’s additionally why once you see somebody saying, everybody ought to eat this particular superfood as a result of it’s assured to be good to your physique and your bones, make word of it, however understand it may not give you the results you want as a result of irrespective of how a lot of a superfood or well being meals somebody claims one thing is, or how nice they are saying it’s to your bones, if it creates irritation in your physique, it’s not a well being meals for you. And in addition the place you’re in your well being journey is gonna be one other necessary consideration. So when you’re working to beat digestive points or bacterial overgrowth, candida, or put autoimmune illness in remission, your dietary strategy will differ considerably from those that usually are not. Normal rule of thumb, anti-inflammatory weight loss plan. You realize, if any individual doesn’t have plenty of completely different well being points and issues like that, a very good place to begin may doubtlessly be a Mediterranean-ish-type strategy.


If any individual is coming in they usually’ve acquired, you already know, autoimmune circumstances and issues like that, we’re most likely gonna at the very least, you already know, begin them someplace round a paleo-type strategy or one thing like that. Paleo AIP is clearly gonna be necessary too, however particularly on the extra restrictive plans. So when you’re on AIP or another weight loss plan for intestine well being particularly, you’re not gonna be staying on these issues ideally, you already know, indefinitely or as a long run strategy as a result of if not, you could possibly be creating nutrient deficiencies and issues like that long-term there too, when you’re not paying consideration. Then particular meals I’d say, some common meals that we may begin incorporating now which can be good for lots of people. I’d say small-boned fish. So issues like salmon, anchovies, sardines, herring, mackerel, these sorts of fish with the bone in. You will get these in cans. Important Alternative is a superb place to go get these.


And people have, you already know, nice supply of protein, all of the minerals that it’s essential assist your individual wholesome bones, and then you definately’ve acquired the omega 3s there too. So these are nice issues if we are able to incorporate these. You realize, do these each likelihood you get. Coconut oil, one other one is nice. It’s thought of one of many healthiest meals on the planet, but it surely’s nice to your bones too, okay? So virgin coconut oil is nice. It’s not solely been proven to assist with defending in opposition to bone loss, however really within the enchancment of bone construction. In order that’s one other one which may very well be useful. After which additionally arugula. Arugula is a superb leafy inexperienced, similar cruciferous household of greens as broccoli and kale, but it surely’s decrease oxalate, okay? And spinach is a standard inexperienced that lots of people eat, however what they don’t perceive is that even when you have a look at a container of spinach and it says, it’s acquired plenty of calcium there, most of that calcium shouldn’t be bioavailable. It’s sure up with oxalate.


So arugula is a superb one to swap for that. And in addition, you already know, if any individual has points with oxalates, they might have kidney stones, arthritis, joint ache, issues like that, these could also be indicators. They could have a tough time breaking down and degrading that oxalate. So arugula may very well be a very good swap there too. After which vitamin C-rich meals. These are nice as a result of vitamin C isn’t just key to your physique well being, it’s additionally necessary to your bone well being. Bones are made up of this collagen protein matrix upon which minerals are laid. Vitamin C stimulates pro-collagen. It enhances collagen synthesis, and it stimulates one thing known as alkaline phosphatase exercise, which is gonna assist with bone-building cell formation. So you will get that out of your citrus fruits, Kakadu plums, acerola cherries, strawberries. These are nice fruit sources.


After which, you already know, when it comes to vitamin C-rich greens, pink and yellow bell peppers, you already know, dino kale,  kale, steamed broccoli, Brussels sprouts, these are some nice choices when it comes to meals to get began.


After which simply when it comes to train, being lively, incorporating resistance coaching. You wanna ensure you’ve acquired two several types of stimuli going when it comes to constructing your train plan, muscle pulling on bone and affect, okay? These are the best interventions for train. Muscle’s gonna pull on bone to make them stronger. That mechanical sign is gonna ship a chemical sign to inform the bone principally to turn out to be stronger. Impression workouts, they’re welcome boost too. Swimmers and long-distance working, they don’t present that various packed. So long-term, these shouldn’t be the one supply of train that somebody is getting. Actually necessary to stipulate that too. After which if we’re doing resistance coaching, research are gonna present that the best reality, the extra intense the train in that 5 to 10 rep vary, that’s what’s gonna be greatest for exciting muscle and bone development.


Katie: Tremendous useful. I took plenty of notes. I like that you simply introduced up issues like canned sardines. I’ve been saying that for years of it being principally a multivitamin and I get pushback from folks saying, “It’s so gross”. And I’m like, I promise you may study to adore it. Possibly put some pickles with it or mustard or no matter helps you with the style, but it surely’s like the most affordable pure supply of plenty of these issues that you may get and also you’re actually getting bones. So it is sensible that that will assist your bones.


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I additionally love that you simply introduced up oxalates. As a result of I really feel like that is one other space that’s not talked about after we speak about, you already know, greens are nice for you, have heaps and plenty of greens is that there’s such a variety there. And sometimes I’ve discovered simply genetically lots of people don’t do nice with a complete lot of leafy greens, particularly uncooked. And you may verify this. My understanding is that issues like cooking it could actually really scale back the oxalate and make it extra bioavailable. Some other suggestions for that? I like the arugula one. I didn’t really know that. So I’ll put that within the present notes as effectively.


Kevin: Yeah. Boiling is gonna have the best discount in oxalates, but additionally with that, you already know, you scale back among the different vitamins there too. However the discount shouldn’t be gonna be an entire discount, too. So if any individual is already…you already know, in the event that they’re coming to us they usually have already got digestive points, and kidney stones, and arthritis, and joint ache, we’re gonna, ideally, it’s not like you may remove…or it’s difficult to remove each single meals that comprises oxalate, however you may make some wholesome alternate options and swaps, and arugula is simply a straightforward one to do this. And in addition plenty of instances if folks have taken antibiotics for a very long time or, you already know, they’ve performed some issues to degrade their intestine micro organism, one of many precise intestine micro organism that breaks down and degrade oxalates, oxalobacter formigenes, that may very well be a difficulty too, proper> Individuals might not even have that intestine micro organism to assist break down and degrade the oxalate.


Katie: And also you additionally talked about bones being like form of a collagen matrix construction. Definitely like dietary dietary supplements of collagen have gotten actually common within the final couple of years. Do you counsel these or is there a greater approach to get that?


Kevin: Collagen dietary supplements can completely be useful, proper? Since you’re nonetheless getting the amino acids. The one factor to remember is that collagen shouldn’t be an entire protein, proper? It’s lacking tryptophan, you continue to must be positive you’re getting full proteins in your weight loss plan, however it may be an ideal addition. And it’s a straightforward addition for lots of people too. One other various for upping your protein consumption, which is tremendous necessary. You realize, ensuring you’re hitting your protein wants is tremendous necessary. Whey protein may very well be an choice if any individual can really tolerate that, that’s an necessary word additionally. After which, you already know, complete meals, precise complete meals, canned sardines, issues like that. And also you don’t all the time must eat the canned model of issues simply to get the bones. Sure, you may nonetheless eat the opposite cooked salmon or baked salmon or hen or, you already know, no matter it’s that you simply’re incorporating, however incorporating that animal protein is totally one thing that, you already know, I believe is necessary to be doing in your weight loss plan.


Katie: Yeah. And I do know that there are plenty of additionally hormonal causes that girls typically are extra affected by this than males, however among the factors you simply introduced up made me suppose, particularly for girls, there’s two actually necessary issues I wished to spotlight that you simply stated. One being about hitting protein targets as a result of I’ve had previous podcast visitors after which seen firsthand in my very own life that many ladies drastically under-eat and below eat sufficient protein. And this was actually pivotal for me after I really began mapping out how a lot protein I used to be consuming after which ensuring to sufficient protein, I spotted I used to be means under what I wanted to get earlier than. And it turned a lot simpler to construct muscle and really drop some weight even by consuming extra meals after I acquired that protein in goal, which it’s nice to know additionally advantages my bones, however I really feel like typically for no matter purpose, ladies usually are not as inspired to eat as a lot protein. And that possibly is an space of deficiency for lots of ladies, together with the kinds of train that you simply talked about.


I really feel like these affect and muscle versus bone actions are ones that on common, usually, guys are inclined to do extra typically. And we see ladies extra in like courses or light cardio or swimming, however that’s not giving the identical results. So I’d love to only discuss a bit of bit extra about each of these, possibly some specifics on protein targets and the way a lot is that train threshold as a result of like I stated, I noticed huge modifications in my life from upping my protein after which doing issues like sprinting, like fast sprints, after which weightlifting actually modified my physique fairly drastically. So I’d love to speak a bit of bit extra about these.


Kevin: Yeah. So protein targets, I’d look extra towards being at the very least, on the very least, you already know, when you’re 0.545 instances your physique weight in kilos could be concerning the variety of grams of protein that you’d need. So let’s say you’re, you already know, 100-pound feminine, 0.545 instances your physique weight and kilos could be about 55 grams of protein, minimal, completely minimal that you simply’re gonna wanna be getting. And you may clearly go up from there to assist, particularly when you’ve acquired that extra intense train and also you’re really lifting and doing the resistance and issues like that, you need to have the gas there and the vitamins there to offer that muscle development too. As a result of keep in mind what I stated, once you’re really constructing muscle, that’s gonna assist construct bone too. So resisting coaching is tremendous necessary.


A variety of instances too what I see with train is persons are doing…possibly they’re long-distance cyclers or they’re long-distance runners they usually simply rely the working. Possibly they run plenty of marathons or they’re clocking 5, 6, 7 miles each single day, however they don’t have every other various train. Primary, you’re not getting the numerous affect when you’re simply, you already know, working the identical course. There’s no variation within the affect, that may have a adverse impact in your bones long-term. After which additionally when you’re not really lifting weights, constructing muscle energy, that’s actually solely working, you already know, for essentially the most half, the decrease half of your physique, however we’ve acquired different bones in components of our skeleton that we simply can’t chalk that up if the one exercise that we’re doing for our decrease half. In order that’s after we need to be incorporating among the bigger compound actions, the overhead presses, the deadlifts, the squats, these sorts of actions that interact essentially the most muscle and which can be really, you already know, we’re doing them at the very least within the 5 to 10 rep vary. That’s what’s gonna be most useful for exciting muscle and bone development.


I say that with an asterisk is that when you should not have a background in weightlifting, don’t simply soar on YouTube, watch a video of any individual deadlifting, after which go soar on the market to attempt to do this by yourself. That would result in potential harm. However when you get some steering, you get assured in these items, particularly on the youthful teams. For those who’re 20s, 30s, 40s, when you can develop a ardour for this younger and also you get the best type and physique mechanics down now, that’s gonna do wonders for you afterward in life. And lots of people don’t…the those who I work with plenty of instances too, in the event that they’re of their 50s, 60s, particularly after they get to their 70s, they’ve acquired daughters, I hear this day-after-day, proper? They need they might’ve performed extra to be on the facet of prevention. And when you’re in that age vary of 20, 30, 40s, hold your bone well being in thoughts. Do these items now which can be gonna set you up for an lively future.


Katie: Yeah. I noticed a extremely fascinating graphic on that one time of evaluating ladies who had lifelong weightlifting passion or observe, and exhibiting that even ladies of their 80s side-by-side of 1 who persistently, and it’s not like hours a day, we’re speaking small quantities of weightlifting and ate sufficient protein. They usually regarded 30 years aside in age. It was actually, actually drastic. In order a facet profit, these items additionally appear to have a fairly sturdy anti-aging impact.


Kevin: Completely, completely.


Katie: And also you talked about, folks as they become older, and I do know that that’s a way more widespread demographic for bone loss, and we’re seeing that from the statistics, I’ve seen that’s on the rise proper now, fairly drastically as effectively. For folks listening who’re both in that age bracket or have possibly mother and father or kin who’re, I do know I’ve an prolonged member of the family who has been recognized with bone loss, what are among the issues they will do, are they destined to only getting fractures, or can a few of these issues nonetheless assist form of enhance that trajectory for them?


Kevin: I imply, irrespective of the place somebody is at, you may construct bone energy at any age. For those who keep in mind what I used to be saying earlier, you already know, it simply turns into more difficult. You might have much less bone cells concerned within the course of as you become older. As you lose extra bone, the method of rebuilding turns into much less environment friendly. So the sooner you are able to do one thing the higher, however irrespective of once you begin, when you… You realize, the place to begin, if we’re it as figuring out and addressing root trigger problems with bone loss, nourishing your physique and absorbing vitamins, and constructing energy, the physique, thoughts, and bone, you are able to do these issues at any age. So when you’ve acquired root trigger points. I’d encourage folks in case you have a dad or mum, proper, that possibly you already know has bone well being points they usually’re simply form of ignoring it or placing it off or not listening to it, encourage them to make assumptions, or not make assumptions and make goal choices, proper?


Encourage them to be their very own greatest advocate and to verify they’ve all the data data they should make educated, knowledgeable choices shifting ahead with a medicine, proper? That’s all the time gonna be proposed by their physicians, however they will do one thing else first to see if that’s really the route that they want even to go as a result of plenty of instances it’s not. And simply determining the basis trigger points, getting their diet plan in place, doing the best issues for workouts are all tremendous, tremendous necessary.


Katie: Superior. I’ve acquired plenty of notes for you, guys, listening, I’m placing all of them there together with hyperlinks to study extra about all of those. For anybody listening who possibly doesn’t have an acute drawback however needs to verify this isn’t going to turn out to be an issue, you’ve talked about some testing, however possibly simply give us form of a blueprint for which explicit testing at what age is an efficient level to begin.


Kevin: So primary, DEXA scan. There’s additionally one other take a look at on the market proper now known as the REMS take a look at. And this take a look at really appears to be like at your bone high quality and your bone density on the similar time, okay? And that’s Radiofrequency Echographic Multi Spectrometry expertise. And what it does is it’s gonna inform your bone density, after which it’s gonna provide you with a five-year main osteo product fracture danger. And it’s gonna additionally let you know your bone high quality, bone density, bone high quality mixed to create bone energy. So you could possibly get that as a baseline. It’s extra prevalent in Europe, not a lot right here, but it surely’s gonna make its means, I believe extra into the U.S. right here actual quickly. After which additionally, the CTX take a look at, the bone turnover markers that I talked about earlier, you will get a serum CT low peptide take a look at to only perceive what the extent of your bone breakdown is earlier on.


That means, afterward in life, you form of have a benchmark. After which among the different ones, vitamin D, that’s an excellent necessary take a look at that we wanna be certain we’re getting. Take a look at the 25 hydroxyvitamin D. Once more, that vary is de facto extensive. Usually, when you’re within the U.S., 30 to 100 ng/ml, lots of people are on the decrease finish of that vary. We wanna bump that up. We wanna bump that up a bit of bit extra. After which, clearly, the celiac take a look at, checking your intestine well being. You realize, when you’ve been consuming gluten for 30 days and also you’ve acquired these antibodies current, the tTg-IgA take a look at, that’s gonna be a useful take a look at to assist establish in case you have celiac illness.


After which additionally you will get your thyroid testing performed. So you are able to do a TSH. You possibly can have a look at your different thyroid markers, together with your ferritin too. You wanna have a look at your ferritin. Complete metabolic panel, CBC, after which your PTH, your parathyroid hormone, okay? That is gonna…your PTH, you wanna have a look at that in relation to your vitamin D and your blood calcium ranges simply to ensure you don’t have a parathyroid tumor, which may very well be raking calcium out of your bones. These are among the normal fundamental assessments. There are much more than that the place you may dig, you already know, particularly deeper into sure areas primarily based on what these outcomes flip up, however that’s a very good place to begin.


Katie: Superior. And I do know you could have plenty of sources about this. The place can folks discover you in the event that they wanna study extra about any of those specifics, or they’ve an acute drawback and wanna begin engaged on it?


Kevin: Yeah, completely. You possibly can all the time discover me over at That’s the simplest place. We even have a YouTube channel, Fb, Instagram, Pinterest, all the foremost channels and a podcast too. So you may all the time discover me @BoneCoach.


Katie: And people might be linked to you guys as effectively at, so you will discover them. After which a few final questions that I like to ask on the finish of interviews, the primary being, if there’s a e-book or quite a lot of books which have had a profound affect in your life? And in that case, what they’re and why?


Kevin: I’d say for me, which might be an uncommon reply, “Little Blue Truck,” which when you’ve acquired mothers, you already know, take heed to this, I’m positive they is perhaps accustomed to that e-book. And actually all the opposite books that I learn to my children, proper? For me, it’s not a lot, I learn management and growth books and enterprise books and well being books, and issues like that on a regular basis. There are plenty of nice ones on the market, however when it comes to the books I really care essentially the most about it could be those that I learn to my children at evening. It’s as a result of I didn’t have that with my dad after I was youthful. And actually for me, I really feel blessed to have that chance to be the daddy that mine didn’t get an opportunity to be for me. So these are the perfect books for me.


Katie: I like that. That may be a new advice. I’ll ensure that’s linked as effectively. I perceive what you imply about these are among the most particular books. Not that I discovered essentially the most from, however that I had essentially the most recollections from.


Kevin: For positive.


Katie: Are there every other issues that folks don’t know or misunderstand about bone well being that we haven’t already lined at the moment?


Kevin: I don’t know. A variety of instances I get questions on, you already know, excessive issues when it comes to like, ought to I by no means do that once more, or ought to I… You realize, some of the widespread ones I get is espresso and caffeine, for instance. Like, do I must fully cease ingesting espresso? Caffeine very barely will increase calcium excretion and reduces GI calcium absorption. Most individuals don’t must fully keep away from espresso. And I usually spotlight that as like drink much less. So caffeine intakes higher than 300-milligram a day, so a cup of espresso normally has what, 100 to 250 milligrams, that will increase the quantity of calcium excretion the urine and the chance for osteoporosis-related fractures, however solely in those that weren’t assembly sufficient each day calcium consumption. In order that’s tremendous necessary, proper? I believe among the different ones, you already know, folks all the time ask me about dairy.


You realize, it’s a wealthy supply of calcium. That may be a reality. A little bit over 30% of calcium in dairy is absorbed. Ideally, that calcium must be coming…you already know, if we’re consuming cultured and fermented dairies, so your kefirs, your yogurts, these may very well be useful additions. However on the similar time, in case your dietary strategy, like, in case you have an autoimmune illness, for instance, and also you’re working making an attempt to place that into remission, dairy’s most likely not gonna be included into that strategy. So, once more, it comes right down to variations for each single particular person. There are many different methods to get calcium although with out utilizing dairy. Edible bones. Like we simply talked about earlier in sardines, that’s an effective way. Cruciferous greens, the absorbability of calcium there may be fairly excessive, 40% to 60% about. After which it’s so much much less as you get into issues like Spinach, actually poor absorbability. Yeah, I’d say these are among the greater questions that I get. You realize, ought to I incorporate dairy? No, it shouldn’t be your solely primary supply. For creating children, I believe it may very well be useful.


Katie: I believe lots of people might be relieved to know that espresso doesn’t must go away solely. And it feels like we are able to popularize sardines and low for breakfast and resolve these issues.


Kevin: Oh, I’m all about that.


Katie: After which lastly, any parting recommendation, may very well be associated to bone well being or not?


Kevin: Yeah. I’d simply say, you already know, be sort to your self. For those who’ve ever been on a well being journey in any respect, you already know that it may be irritating. It may be difficult. You attempt, you already know, plenty of the various things. They don’t work out. You pursue a special path. You make investments your time, your vitality, you already know, all these items into it and it may not work. Be sort to your self, be affected person. You realize, progress isn’t excellent, but it surely’s all the time attainable. It’s essential to intention for progress. That might be my factor.


Katie: I like that. I believe that’s an ideal place to wrap up. And thanks a lot to your time at the moment. This has been a extremely enjoyable deep dive. I do know I discovered so much, and hopefully, our listeners did as effectively. Thanks for being right here.


Kevin: Hey, thanks for having me, Katie. Glad I may be part of and wishing the perfect to your viewers.


Katie: Thanks. And thanks as all the time to all of you for listening and sharing your most respected sources, your time, your vitality, and your consideration with us at the moment. We’re each so grateful that you simply did, and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”


For those who’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a score or overview on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may benefit from the data. I actually respect your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.

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