Leah Segedie on the Fact About PFAS and The right way to (Considerably) Keep away from Them


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Katie: Howdy, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And I’m right here in the present day with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer shopper decisions for his or her households. And she or he is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing known as PFAS, that are chemical compounds which can be present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this in the present day, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought-about endlessly chemical compounds, how there are over 10,000 within the atmosphere, and the way they have an effect on the physique in plenty of alternative ways. We speak about how testing could be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical compounds, how you can keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered so much. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be a part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?

 

Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.

 

Katie: Likewise, I like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we discuss. I believe most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, nevertheless it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you mentioned, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit subject. However earlier than we do, I’ve a observe in my present notes that you’ve got hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to just a little bit about this story first.

 

Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, nevertheless it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s just a little wiener canine or one thing. And so the those who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two sorts of those who it’s actually frequent in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. They usually have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you’ll be able to Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket every time I need.

 

Now, once I’m operating, that’s unhealthy, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. For those who can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and with the ability to put my foot again right here once I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I wish to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you already know, I don’t have the…I simply appear like a humorous toy once I do this. However it is rather attention-grabbing and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.

 

Katie: That’s humorous. And one in all my…

 

Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.

 

Katie: Effectively, and one in all my favourite journey reminiscences of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They’re a number of the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely lovely the way in which their life-style is, very totally different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as effectively.

 

Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kinfolk that I do know which can be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve plenty of kinfolk which can be in Bergen, which is absolutely cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. It’s a must to go there as soon as in your lifetime.

 

Katie: I’ll put it on the listing. And I really feel like I may speak about that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary matter that I believe can be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t notice it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve got been doing an excellent, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them in the present day. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak so much about in the present day, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?

 

Leah: It’s known as, you’ll be able to seek advice from it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So basically, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical compounds and a chemical class. They usually all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical compounds as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical compounds that we now have been sort of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical compounds was regarded as protected, you already know, inert, like okay, however within the final couple a long time, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical compounds are. That’s why they’re known as endlessly chemical compounds. These endlessly chemical compounds can final in your physique for a few years or a long time. They only actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the impartial scientists who have been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been so much and lot plenty of unhealthy information. So should you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you already know, engaged on PFAS options, or if in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical compounds that we now have had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.

 

So what I’m doing proper now could be, and thru Mamavation, is absolutely attempting to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know how you can keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this example is it’s unimaginable to utterly keep away from them. You would need to dwell…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’d nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get all over the place. However what we will do is we will make educated choices and decisions in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our kids are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the subsequent technology.

 

Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our children. What are a number of the problematic areas we see relating to these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you mentioned, plenty of this analysis is simply within the final couple of a long time. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?

 

Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually unhealthy for ladies, nevertheless it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought when it comes to that, you don’t want additional testosterone in your physique. However should you’re a person, and also you get additional testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, finished, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually unhealthy should you’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, you already know. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with all the things else is it kills your immune system, basically, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not combat off ailments.

 

Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you have got in your system, the much less probably vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s a number of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, throughout the final three, 4 years is that they’re infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve finished this in adults, however they’ve positively finished in youngsters. They usually know that the extra you have got in your physique, and bear in mind, this may occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less probably you’ll be able to reply to one thing like a vaccine, or another sort of remedy that’s like that, that’s purported to convey up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually wish to watch out about.

 

They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and kind 2 diabetes. In order that they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s plenty of girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, after all, cancers, there’s plenty of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart should you notice it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s sort of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you already know, what’s taking place to us can be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our shopper merchandise, it’s getting in all kinds of issues.

 

And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t wish to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the earth of, these are chemical compounds that I wish to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is increased up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might have a look at first earlier than you resolve some…I don’t know, should you’re anxious about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You understand what I imply? Like, these sorts of issues. That’s an even bigger class that you just simply wish to keep away from.

 

Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I might simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there may be that in each circumstances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to turn out to be a polarizing subject. However in each circumstances, it’s like how can we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these circumstances, and that’s one thing we will really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider plenty of similarities like plastic-type chemical compounds, as an example, as effectively, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if attainable in any respect can we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?

 

Leah: You possibly can’t. Effectively, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical compounds that we don’t have any proof of something with the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the reality. If folks inform you the other, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical compounds that doesn’t function like different chemical compounds, you already know, plenty of these nasty, persistent chemical compounds are trapped in fats. So should you can pull it out by the fats, then you’ll be able to pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very otherwise in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.

 

So what the best-case situation is correct now could be to keep away from it as a lot as you’ll be able to, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it while you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s while you’re simply you already know, on the lookout for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however after all, you already know, hormone-disrupting chemical compounds are worse throughout hormone modifications in the course of the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when all the things is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you already know, issues received to only align proper. The second half is while you’re out and it’s 5 years, you already know, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.

 

Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is while you undergo the change, proper, you begin to turn out to be a girl otherwise you turn out to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you wish to begin to consider this, despite the fact that they don’t care, you continue to wish to give it some thought, proper? After which in direction of the tip of your life, for girls it’s while you undergo the change once more and also you cease with the ability to, you already know, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you already know, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it will be good to know, really. However these are a very powerful instances so that you can begin desirous about these items, when these sorts of folks…you already know when you have got youngsters in the home.

 

Katie: Yeah, and I believe the steadiness, such as you mentioned is necessary, like keep away from it every time attainable, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I at all times consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical compounds, we don’t really know how you can get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any means attainable. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply fundamental hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical compounds within the physique.

 

Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the unhealthy stuff comes out while you poop, you wish to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you already know, they haven’t finished research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical compounds. You have been saying one thing about plasticizers. Mockingly, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s an entire class known as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is sort of like, which is a polymer. And satirically, you already know, once I do testing, there are not any checks to search out all of those polymers. So once I’m testing for these chemical compounds, and I’m on the lookout for over 10,000 of them, the sort of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot verify. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unimaginable. There’s solely about 90 chemical compounds you’ll be able to take a look at for at a very good industrial lab. Most of those labs you can take a look at for will solely be capable to take a look at for possibly 16 to 30. However it’s in a college lab, they will most likely discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.

 

The opposite choice is what you see plenty of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definately function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing known as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. Once I say natural when it comes to chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it sort of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m on the lookout for the man-made fluorine. While you discover that, there’s sort of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I could possibly be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive take a look at. It seems to be at 10 components per million. Now, despite the fact that I’m saying components per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re trying all the way in which down within the components per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be possibly a drop in a daily pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re far bigger, and we’re not trying in water, we’re trying in shopper merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, basically, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, you already know. So if it could actually’t be burned, we will’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we will have a look at.

 

However it’s additionally actually tough to search out, and you already know, the devils within the particulars, should you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m sort of standing within the center right here. I’m sending plenty of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that will be pure, you already know, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they wish to find out about all the things else. And you’d be sort of shocked, within the pure business, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to search out. There’s plenty of causes behind that.

 

One of many causes is, like as an example, should you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. They usually don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you already know, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” They usually’re like, “It’s not there.” They usually’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, you need to, you already know, strain the FDA to take these out of…you already know, as accredited oblique components, as an alternative of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe you need to most likely repair this within the requirements, I simply assume you need to.” However that’s simply my opinion.

 

So it may be in something, basically. And should you check out the FDA web site, on what’s accredited for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s plenty of polymers which can be accredited, polymeric PFAS. So meaning these are PFAS chemical compounds which can be made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS product of PFAS, and in addition, nevertheless it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, most likely, I’m pondering, since there’s so a lot of them which can be accredited by the FDA, that’s most likely what we might most likely be seeing in meals, you already know, sort of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these checks are simply not accessible. However I preserve seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually completely satisfied to do that testing as a result of not solely do I wish to know, however as soon as I began testing, all people else wished to know as effectively. So it’s an ideal service that we’re in a position to present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually completely satisfied to have the ability to do that.

 

Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some frequent merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are a number of the frequent sources within the house atmosphere that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as effectively. What could be a number of the frequent sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?

 

Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless assume you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. A variety of this might be cookware, so if in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that have been sort of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally wish to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you’ll discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s exterior. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too scorching, it could actually disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless sort of a problem. So we’re proper now working by these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to be sure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Positively not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.

 

Meals packaging is one other subject, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which can be product of silicone and there’s some parchment papers which can be product of PFAS. They usually, a few of them typically they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to sort of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears sort of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which is named Gifbera, after which one other one known as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.

 

However right here’s like, plenty of instances while you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a problem of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you’ll be able to cook dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even realizing about it as a result of plenty of instances it has to do with the processing of the meals someway, and the way these chemical compounds, be in polymers or no matter, are entering into all the things. So the extra you’ll be able to cook dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s most likely one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you’ll be able to cook dinner utilizing elements that you already know about, the higher off you might be.

 

One other actually large space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you already know, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it incorporates plenty of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your home. So your tv most likely has some PFAS within the wiring, possibly has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, plenty of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different sorts of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they sort of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in direction of mud. In order that they follow the mud and so they fall, proper?

 

So how do you get this out of your home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you already know, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less probably your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you already know, being on carpet in case you have got previous carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you already know, to get that stuff out of it, it’ll break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you’ll be able to, these sorts of issues. Get an air air purifier, a number of the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are most likely additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you wish to eliminate the mud.

 

Make-up and private care, it is a actually tough subject. Earlier this yr, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 standard, largely standard make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you already know what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go anyplace and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you wish to sort of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.

 

I might say we discovered about six or seven totally different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you already know, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re on the lookout for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you already know, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be plenty of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing every single day, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first cross dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually tough to sort of be capable to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do plenty of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, you already know, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that data on the market. Even the scientists who have been it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to determine which one they examined however that’s why we did it.

 

One other factor is like water, look into your water. This can be a actually large deal as a result of should you dwell by a army base otherwise you dwell by an airport that is actually necessary, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated plenty of groundwater by these bases. So should you dwell by an airport otherwise you dwell by a army base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s most likely going to be there and it is probably not a kind of PFAS that we will acknowledge simply but. You understand, as a result of that’s the opposite downside with water is, we’re not as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, you already know, that that’s how I’m working proper now could be I’m simply assuming, despite the fact that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you already know, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you already know, that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.

 

Clothes is one other large one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve plenty of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to growing strategies for testing. A few of them, you already know, they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up in opposition to your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.

 

And since we don’t know, we will’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to search out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which can be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in plenty of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so should you go to Mamavation…I want I may inform you each single one, nevertheless it’s very complicated on the market proper now to search out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which can be producing clothes, aren’t trying on the large chemical class. They’re solely this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you already know.

 

And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an example. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that may enable sure sorts of PFAS chemical compounds within the certification and but they sort of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the patron and the explanation it’s complicated for the patron is the scientists have simply sort of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t wish to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the regulation, you already know, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering typically the businesses are two, three years behind, you already know, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into plenty of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you already know, something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be searching for that.

 

Tents and outside tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to snigger at me, however there may be one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish title and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t converse Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there may be plenty of European manufacturers that as an alternative of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, you already know, you’re not going to discover a low cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you already know, extra pure…and I do know paraffin isn’t pure, however like, you already know, it’s higher than PFAS. These sorts of mixtures which can be much less problematic to the atmosphere in an affordable means but, hopefully the long run will change that.

 

Then additionally, you already know, it’s in automobile wax and surfboard wax, these sorts of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been desirous about this when it comes to what’s round us. You understand, should you’re going to be doing flooring, as an example, you already know, we went after bamboo and we appeared particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you’ll be able to stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, you already know, remedy all the issues after which we did discover one model. However it’s tough. It’s actually tough to keep away from it, you already know, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and cook dinner from scratch as a lot as you’ll be able to. These are the three issues that I might say would most likely do probably the most bang in your buck and simply look out for locations who…like should you go to mamavation.com, we’ve finished an investigation on like plenty of issues, not all the things but, however on plenty of issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m sort of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is absolutely sophisticated.

 

Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you mentioned, we’re seeing some which can be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, nevertheless it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some circumstances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you mentioned, that they’re protected.

 

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And I do know out of your web site, you’ve finished investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which can be particularly most likely relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?

 

Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as unhealthy, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, totally different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you already know what I imply? I put on them actually every single day, it’s sort of like my outfit, it ought to be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually snug, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I received plenty of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, once I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to search out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to search out it. After which I assumed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, should you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 components per million, so that’s protected.

 

We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the high of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which have been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be happy to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the most effective on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to sort of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as effectively. So this was not as unhealthy, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it could be comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, possibly begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however should you…to find out about that, I don’t find out about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t find out about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.

 

Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.

 

Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you already know your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the inside half. So the inside half is that, like, sort of pores and skin colour mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which can be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And once I informed my advisors about this, plenty of them they have been pediatricians that have been, you already know, serving to me overview this one particular one, they have been involved and extra of our advisors have been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up in opposition to your breasts. Now, right here’s the situation I’m pondering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You understand, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you’ll be able to and you already know you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re figuring out, figuring out, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definately run upstairs, you go get the newborn, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the situation I’m anxious about.

 

So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and have a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not all the things. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one in all them that I did discover that I believe individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing plenty of work on PFAS and textiles and you may inform as a result of once I examined in opposition to that, they got here out clear. So should you’re an enormous busted woman, which I’m, my ladies are fairly massive…For those who’re an enormous busted woman you don’t need, like, black eyes when you’re figuring out, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s stuffed with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. In order that they’re known as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And typically I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you already know, and that was a kind of points the place I simply stored testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you wish to look on mamavation.com. For those who go there, we’ve received the entire checks listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.

 

Katie: What about interval underwear? That is once I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as an alternative for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as effectively, however what did you discover when it got here to those?

 

Leah: It was fairly unhealthy really once we appeared into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that truly market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however it’s your decision to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However you must have my eyes to know what you’re . You have a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is so much increased than mine. So I take a look at at 10 components per million. They have been testing at 50, so you already know what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise occurring in that.

 

And the issue is…I, you already know, interviewed plenty of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And basically what’s taking place is what they mentioned to me is you have got lots of people on this business that don’t actually have plenty of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know so much about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at plenty of different issues, however they don’t actually know so much concerning the processing of textiles. And should you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you will get Oeko-Tex cloth, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer can be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” They usually know that should you put that on it destroys all the things, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so you already know, should you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile business, you could fall into that class.

 

So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that appeared like…there was just a few manufacturers that had ranges that have been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that have been low. And so while you have a look at that, it seems to be like extra of a contamination subject than it seems to be like an deliberately added subject. However I don’t know what, you already know, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no person is aware of. In order that’s why we have been in a position to do the classes we have been and I imagine it was…it could be seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, you already know, every time we do discover one thing, and those who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can take a look at stuff, simply preserve it in its unique packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had group members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we will see. That’s not a great one.

 

Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be certain that we hyperlink to those as effectively as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the precise particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of children, it is a favourite so as to add to plenty of stuff. So what about ketchup?

 

Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had whole fluorine in it. Now, I wished to elucidate to all people that I did whole fluorine checks on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you sort of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, plenty of testing. So that offers you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve finished. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve finished natural fluorine on. And once I first began, I did whole fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you already know, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.

 

However we discovered a ton of whole fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you already know, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Complete Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me assume that that could be white-labeled, possibly white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and plenty of them have been actually near 10. So it was like they have been proper there, proper?

 

So right here’s the reply to that, of the entire issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do whole fluorine on all the things, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the full fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, in order that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not attainable, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, possibly three components per million. You understand, so plenty of manufacturers will wish to say, in the event that they wish to say it’s whole fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you already know, fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, you already know, I believe they wish to assume that it’s nevertheless it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks have been actually, actually…they actually wished to find out about.

 

And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they have been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering plenty of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that specific investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply most likely not going to be till subsequent yr someday, proper? And I wish to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know plenty of them do find out about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and mentioned they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.

 

Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to return in different classes as effectively. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s attainable to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally surprise like, is there even a…should you’re going to weigh the danger and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know how you can get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even attainable? Or is it higher simply to know they’re unhealthy and keep away from them?

 

Leah: So I want I might have finished that once I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I believe it’s known as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double verify on that. However there’s a model new take a look at the place you’ll be able to prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a large enormous deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to all people. So let me provide you with some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you already know, scientific research. And I had plenty of scientists concerned and we sort of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unimaginable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you already know, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you already know, you wait every week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to review in your physique, actually, actually tough to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.

 

At that time, we have been trying right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at house. What we have been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you already know, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I wish to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab around the globe. So it’s a very…that’s an ideal partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this and so they’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you’ll be able to take a look at your self, it’s just a little drip of blood, ship it off, and I imagine they’re testing for between 16 to 30 totally different PFAS, however the commonest ones that you just’re going to search out in water.

 

Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as effectively if it’s in your web site, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…

 

Leah: It’s not but.

 

Katie: Okay.

 

Leah: You’ve received it first.

 

Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, after all, flew by as a result of we at all times have such enjoyable conversations.

 

Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.

 

Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as increasingly investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you wish to give to our listeners in the present day, could possibly be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?

 

Leah: Oh, you already know, when it comes to these items, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, possibly eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you already know, I wish to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And the entire different issues, I’ll based mostly on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, when it comes to like, while you’re desirous about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you wish to have a look at are the massive dailies, proper, day by day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff when it comes to, you already know, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you already know, or ingesting as soon as a month. So go off to your buddy’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you already know, get pleasure from your self. As a result of the stress you can placed on folks based mostly on being afraid of all these items, I believe, could be worse on you general than I believe the precise chemical compounds themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered through the years.

 

And so shield your area, shield your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome worry of one thing that’s harmful, you already know what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And in addition entering into the world of it would being like a disordered pondering course of, you already know, the disordered pondering technique of all the things is poisonous isn’t a great place so that you can be. I need you to get pleasure from your life. And you already know, comply with folks like Katie and I for, you already know, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You understand, that’s my recommendation is, you already know, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and check out to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.

 

After which simply, you already know, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you already know, that is a kind of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of ladies who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? For those who’re voting for them, and that is your subject, be sure that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you already know you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t wish to piss off both of these teams. However you already know, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s plenty of states and once I say so much, I imply plenty of states proper now which can be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.

 

Katie: Yeah, I’ve mentioned that so many instances on this podcast that mothers are such a power of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the common mother modifications her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many alternative ranges. And I’ve seen it on a neighborhood degree. Really, the place I used to dwell, it was attention-grabbing, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. However I believe it doesn’t need to be…I believe we frequently don’t do it as a result of we predict it must be this enormous quantity, this enormous groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our children, don’t underestimate your energy to alter that. And in addition to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you’ll be able to but additionally notice the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or turn out to be annoying. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our day by day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.

 

Leah: Love you, lady. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.

 

Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time in the present day. It’s at all times, after all, so enjoyable to get to speak with you. Like I mentioned, we’ll do it once more as increasingly information turns into accessible. However thanks for being right here.

 

Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.

 

Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your most precious sources, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us in the present day. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

 

For those who’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a ranking or overview on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually respect your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.



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